SoCal Jet Boats

Tech Talk => Projects => Topic started by: Bebo on September 06, 2010, 09:25:18 PM

Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on September 06, 2010, 09:25:18 PM
     Finally got around to doing this but here is where we are on my boat. ;D We first bought the boat from River Dad. It was in pretty good shape when we got it but had some work on it to be done. We first had Tom and Josh do a complete rebuild on my panther jet. Thanks guys. After that there were some bad spots on the floor that had to be fixed. We glassed the whole floor twice. I didnt like it but it had to be done, especialy in 90 degree weather. We got better at it as we went along though. Next we installed the new steering rack and cable. Boost came over and helped with that.
     Finally took the motor over to A&D engines with Dave. ( Thanks Dave you helped us tremendously and did great detail on the block and crank) The motor is a 454 CHEVY!! punched out 30 over. It came together pretty smoothly besides the stupid ring compressor. Didnt work at all had to do it by hand with my dad and brother. This is our 1st time building a motor but had a great time doing so. Thanks to erveryone who helped us with parts and advice. (GT jets, IR Rebel, Boost, Tom and Josh, Beerjet, Luckie Stiff)
     Next came the bilge area. It had to be sanded a lot and we glassed that in too to get it smoother. We just got done painting it white but have to do another coat. It is coming along so great and cant wait to get on the water even though the season has passed.
     Over the summer when I was gone my dad suprised me with pollished snail and logs and now are getting the intake and engine plates pollished.
 

P.S- Since it is our first build beerjet we might need that rope!!
     
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on September 06, 2010, 09:28:12 PM
We should be setting in the motor soon but wrestling practice just started. :mad:
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on September 06, 2010, 09:29:22 PM
Few more pics!!!!
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: IRRebel on September 06, 2010, 09:35:00 PM
Lookin good there kiddo!  :thumbup:

Ray
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on September 06, 2010, 09:36:21 PM
Thanks Ray. Looking forward to seeing you on the water.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: crewchief22 on September 06, 2010, 11:56:23 PM
Glad to see you guys getting through all hard work  :thumbup:

Hope to see you on the water soon  ;D
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 07, 2010, 09:07:07 AM
I gotta give Bebo his props for getting thru all the glass and tedious stuff. It is not a lot of fun sometimes as you all now. Especially in the hot summer month's we have had recently. We did not make our goal of July to be on the water, but hopefully we can get this thing on the water soon. Time is our only enemy at the moment being as school has started, wrestling practice after school and Boy Scouts take a good deal of Bebo's time.

We will do our best to keep up on this thread.

Frank
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: HDriderTH on September 07, 2010, 09:52:04 AM
Season over? R U kidding? AVI is next month. We boat till november and back in in march. Bebo, good.....excellent job on the boat! Frank good job on the boy.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: 75 fantasy on September 07, 2010, 10:02:12 AM
Bebo
i know - glass work stinks, even in 75 degree weather. keep up the good work it'll all be worth it when you take it out.

jet boats can teach good life lessons, one being to finish what you start (I'm still working on that one ;))

i'm sure your dad is proud of you :thumbup: props to him too.

 
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: 76 Wreidt on September 07, 2010, 10:55:13 AM
Thats awesome keep up the good work!!!
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: GeneralLee on September 07, 2010, 11:07:25 AM
Looks like a whole lotta work in the heat hehe. Will be well worth it when you take it out, point at the vessel and say " I/we did that". Good job and keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Luckie Stiff on September 07, 2010, 11:48:23 AM
Bebo-

You've done a helluva job kid! Keep it up and you'll be on the water in no time. If there's anything I can do to help you out, don't hesitate to ask.
See you on the water
Skip
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on September 07, 2010, 08:24:54 PM
Thanks guys. I hope to be on the water soon and see and meet all you guys. Also a thanks to challenger for some parts too and anyone i missed. ;D
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: enginedoctor on September 07, 2010, 08:55:04 PM
 :thumbup: :thumbup:WELL DONE :)
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: jet boat performance on September 07, 2010, 11:49:01 PM
Great Jobs Guys , also Great and rewarding family project !! Keep up the good work ! Tom
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Horizonjet on September 08, 2010, 12:01:38 AM
Ya, Looks Awesome!  My 2 kids are helping me with mine and they cant wait to get it in the water and they have learned quite a bit.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 08, 2010, 07:31:37 AM
We are looking forward to getting this thing wet as well. I can't wait to see the look on Bebo's face when we first light up the motor, and the day it finally gets wet. I'll bet he doesn't sleep the night before!

We have already come up with a name for the boat. Being as it is such a low dollar build and we have received so many parts from so many people; the boat has been dubbed "Bits and Pieces"

I can only assume that he will use that to his advantage some day with the ladies. "Hey wanna see my.... ::)
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Horizonjet on September 08, 2010, 08:40:13 AM
HA! That name really fits it and good luck with the ladies someday.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: River Dad on September 16, 2010, 08:49:53 AM
Congrats guys!!!!   Great family project and you should be very proud to have a teenage son that is interested in spending time with "the old man" and working on a project like this instead of hanging around a bunch of mopes playing video games and seeing what kind of trouble they can get into. I hope I can get my two boys into the same thing when they reach that age. 

I think back to my time at his age and the excitement for this boat crap just never stopped!!   Great job fellas!!!!
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: beerjet on September 19, 2010, 08:57:56 PM
Seriously, you guys have out done yourselves.
Great lookin project !
Ill keep my rope handy !

-beerjet-
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 26, 2010, 02:45:52 PM
Update - Since the wife and the girls were gone with the weekend Bebo and I were able to make a little progress. We had painted the bilge but were not happy with the outcome. So on Saturday we sanded it down and resined it it to smooth out some spots. Today we gave it a couple coats of single stage bright white again. It looks a lot better, just some  minor alligatoring at the back. I also had the home made rail kit and the engine plates polished for him. Just need to rebuild the carb and we will be done with the motor. Drop that sucker in, plumb it up and fire it. We are getting very close.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: 76NORDIC on September 26, 2010, 03:13:05 PM
You 2 are doing a great job :thumbup: :thumbup:   Awesome work, now the only thing, is to make sure you seal the engine good, you have to seeing as you painted the bilge white. Will definately show the meticulous work you have both done :thumbup: :thumbup: :beer: and a glass of milk for Bebo ;D
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 26, 2010, 08:33:38 PM
Actually the white bilge was a twofold reason. First it matched the boat and looks clean. Second since we have never built an engine before we wanted to be able to see right away if anything was leaking. The white bilge will help.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: 76NORDIC on September 26, 2010, 09:42:40 PM
Way to go :thumbup: :thumbup: I am sure that Dave gave you guys all the tips you need :thumbup:
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: IRRebel on September 26, 2010, 10:24:31 PM
I'm very proud of both of you guys! I think everyone on this site is!

Could very well be the flagship boat I beleive we need around here and at the "unofficial" gatherings to liven things up a bit. In point of fact, I kinda used Frank and Bebo's story in a regional presentation a couple weeks ago when I was being questioned about MY boats.

I think I started with, "lemme answer that by telling you about the boat I'm most proud of.............it's not mine and it has NOTHING to do with me, I only know about it first hand..........."  I'm not gonna get into what the question was, but it was an attempt to slam me.  >:D

Keep it up guys!  :thumbup:  And GET THE THING WET!!!!!!

Ray
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: GlassCutter on September 27, 2010, 12:31:53 AM
Whoa that's a first.   I thought for sure Ray was gonna try to buy this one too.   ::)
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: IRRebel on September 27, 2010, 12:38:36 AM
Whoa that's a first.   I thought for sure Ray was gonna try to buy this one too.   ::)

LOL! No Ray's just bought his last boat!............For awhile.............

Ray
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on December 19, 2010, 01:35:26 AM
Since Bebo has finally had a free moment from school, wrestling and scouts... we finally got the the intake intstalled today. We are getting really close and he is getting pretty psyched.  We will be taking care of a few misc. items and then should be trying to install the engine. I doubt we will have it ready for the TPM, but we might make it out there just for the show. I am just looking forward to being able to say "We did it!" . And have a beer of course! :beer:
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: crewchief22 on December 19, 2010, 06:49:50 AM
Great job guys, I can't wait to see it on the water  :thumbup:

Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on August 13, 2011, 04:27:06 PM
Almost there guys!!!!! I havnt been on my A game with this but i finaly have some time to work on it! Its almost dont painted the bulge and ready to put the motor in for the final time! Hopefully getting it done soon (:
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on August 13, 2011, 04:29:21 PM
More pics!
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 11, 2011, 09:36:34 PM
As if today was not hard enough to deal with already we had major setbacks on the float. We have no idea what the hell happened but after some serious late night sessions getting the motor in, wired and plumbed we were ready to start it today. Afterpriming the oil and hooking up the water hose (low pressure) we started cranking the engine over. No fuel was getting to the filter, the enging seemed to be a little bit labored and then disaster... we saw something dripping from the carb. Turns out that it was WATER! I don't know how it happened and we are still looking in to it, but all 8 cylinders fill with water and into the carb.

There was no water in the lifter valley and the intake gaskets were intact. We checked the dipstick and there was no evidence of water in the oil although we have not yet pulled the plug to check the pan.

We removed the logs and snails after installing a new intake gasket and cranked it over again with a very low water pressure to see what would happen. We were getting a water buildup in the cylinders if we waited a little while then cranked it.

Pat (lbhsbz) was a huge help throughout the day taking all my calls and walking us through things. Probably gonna take the motor to him this week to have a look and see where we are from a knowledgeable viewpoint.

Worst thing of all was seeing the dissapointment in Bebo's face. It absolutely dropped. We went from absolute excitement to complete discouragement in a matter of seconds.

I promised him that I will not let him down. He said some very positive things after all was said and done. We will get through this. Sorry for the rant.
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 11, 2011, 09:54:14 PM
Tell Bebo that good things come to those who wait.  Get that thing down here, we'll figure it out.  After all his(and your) hard work...don't get in a rush and blow it.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 11, 2011, 09:55:36 PM
No rush now- just determination. Can't let my kid down.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 13, 2011, 10:56:55 PM
So it seems that we may have really screwed the pooch on this one. Just checked the compression on about 5 of the cylinders and the needle barely moved. I think we may have hydrod it (I think thats what its called).  I will probably pull the motor out this weekend and check things out. Not sure that I want to be the one to do the repair though if that is what happened. I may be taking it to a shop. Any recommendations of a shop near La Verne let me know.
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 13, 2011, 11:17:49 PM
Bring it down here....it'll save you some money.  I've got some ideas
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 14, 2011, 07:24:03 PM
Pat I will give you a call after dinner. Thanks for all the help. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on September 17, 2011, 10:29:02 PM
Thanks guys for all the support!! thanks to pat hes helping us out and checkin our motor out for us..we got no compression and we think we set the cam wrong with the timing chain and stuff..Anyways we should be running soon thank to pat thanks man! Cant wait to hear it start for the first time! :D
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: HDriderTH on September 18, 2011, 09:07:18 AM
We had a friends boat in here last year, he worked on it himself, with the cam 45* out....and running!  Bent every intake pushrod. I replaced them and away he went, still running today....compression is fine. Unbelievable, 'member that one Ray?
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: IRRebel on September 18, 2011, 11:16:12 AM
We had a friends boat in here last year, he worked on it himself, with the cam 45* out....and running!  Bent every intake pushrod. I replaced them and away he went, still running today....compression is fine. Unbelievable, 'member that one Ray?

Yeah, That one was one for the record books!  :thumbup: How it ran before, or after and had no bent valves we'll never know........and how you just happened to have a set of correct length 3/8 pushrods for those rockers........Jay must be Irish..........I was just telling that story to a guy that bought a cam and timing set the other day!  >:D

Two old farts, with reading glasses on, bickering like "Grumpy Old Men" in 105* heat (Was the 4th of July, if I remember right) for about 3-4 hours until we figured out what was up. I think Rivermamma was about to kick both of us square in the nuts if she heard 1 more F-Bomb........... :screwy:

Good to hear that one is still running good, Tdawg!

Bebo, Pat'll figure it out PDQ. Sounds like he might find exactly what happened with that other boat, and hopefully just as good of luck!  :thumbup:

A more common mistake from what I'm gathering than I would have thought, and just as an FYI. I'm sure Pat will post it if this is the issue, but it's a pretty common mistake to align the keyways on a BBC as timing marks from what I've learned. The crank keyway should actually be at about the 1:30 position and use the almost invisible, tiny, timing marks stamped near or on the teeth of the gears themselves.  ;)  Happens to the best, and only on the Chebbie as far as I know. Terry and I had to go then online and download Comps instructions for the timing set to know for sure what mark was what on the crank gear when resetting it (There's three of them, and we had to have 2 other guys ID the marks we couldn't see).

Then the arguements started over how to set the lash...............fun day............But we were all on the water the next morning!  ;D

Ray
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 18, 2011, 03:07:37 PM
I'm tempted to throw some sidedrafts on the exhaust dumps and put a stinger on the intake, and spin it backwards...I bet it'll run.

I'm cleaning up the garage today.....then I'll get started making a mess again.  Should have it out tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 18, 2011, 09:42:32 PM
Thanks again Pat for all your help. If it is the cam timing I am glad to hear that I am not the only one to pull that one.  :screwy: We were really happy that we saw no damage in the initial search after pulling the intake and heads. Still hoping for the best.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: IRRebel on September 18, 2011, 10:33:02 PM
I think Terry was trying to catch you before the heads came off, but I understand why you did. From what I've heard from people, you are FAR from the only one to do it!

I asked Jay if he "felt lucky" and he said "yes" so we left the intake and heads on, after some more of our debate, then reset the timing set, new pushrods, primed (If I remember right Terry, correct me if I'm wrong, it took over a half hour to get oil from all the pushrod tubes with the drill?) Which was ANOTHER issue, you can't set lash until the lifters are bled........Bear in mind, this engine was running, kinda, and we had spent an hour trying to set the dizzy and carb with it running, and most of the lifters were not spurting oil through the rods.............. :banghead: THIS is maybe what saved his heads.

Here's the pushrods Terry and I took out of that boat (laying on my trailer) Not Chromemoly, thankfully, else more damage to the SS roller rockers he had or bent valves I would guess, lol.

(https://forum.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi673.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv95%2FIrrebel%2FP7040350.jpg&hash=eb1263ed1fe1cad8eb3c9ecbd2b05e2f557eaa4a)

Sounds like it'll be a real quick thing if the heads and all look ok!  :thumbup:

Ray
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 19, 2011, 07:55:20 AM
Only reason the heads came off is because when I pressurized the cylinders, it sounded like it was leaking into the crankcase.  The rings are new and haven't seated yet...so that might explain some of it.  I've never leaked down a fresh motor before (never had a need to)...so not sure what I shoulda seen.  regardless, there's so much water in this thing....it needs to come down and get all cleaned up before initial startup.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Brendella Pickle on September 19, 2011, 09:01:23 AM
Pat, any chance the ring gaps are lined up?
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 19, 2011, 02:34:52 PM
I don't know....I'll see when I tear it down.

We had 2 known problems....water in the cylinders and no compression.  The cam timing explains both of those, but not the 40% leak down I saw with the valves closed....or cylinders that had a cup of oil in
them when we got the heads off.  We'll see what I find.
Title: Re: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: SoCalPSD on September 19, 2011, 03:25:16 PM
I don't know....I'll see when I tear it down.

We had 2 known problems....water in the cylinders and no compression........cylinders that had a cup of oil in
them when we got the heads off.

Last time I saw symptoms of that nature it was a head gasket issue as in the wrong gasket and a warped head that wasn't machined properly.. Wish you the best hopefully it isn't that bad.

SoCalPsd-Corey
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 19, 2011, 09:05:47 PM
The rings were not lined up when installed. They were "clocked" for lack of a better word. And as for the head gasket - we did see a couple of spots that left some unusual but not definite marks.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: crewchief22 on September 19, 2011, 09:21:20 PM
but not the 40% leak down I saw with the valves closed

I don't feel that 40% leak down on a cold engine with marine tolerances is excessive.  My 454 was at 60% leak down (cold) before rebuild, and the main reason for the rebuild was, I was tired of it pushing oil out the breathers.
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 19, 2011, 09:27:18 PM
I don't feel that 40% leak down on a cold engine with marine tolerances is excessive.  My 454 was at 60% leak down (cold) before rebuild, and the main reason for the rebuild was, I was tired of it pushing oil out the breathers.

60% leakdown is a badly worn out motor or one that someone forgot to put rings in.  I wouldn't imagine a fresh, cold motor to be much more than 20% or so, but I dunno....never had a reason to pump
A new engine....we'll see what's inside.   This one isn't hurt.  I had to play Dad tonight so didn't get a chance do much.  Tomorrow is the day.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: 76NORDIC on September 19, 2011, 09:30:16 PM
Good luck Pat, GetRdone :beer: :beer:
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 19, 2011, 10:09:18 PM
Yes, you've got it...add beer until it works right.
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 19, 2011, 10:18:48 PM
....and if it still knocks, add guiness...it's thicker...lol


Shit, I should go to bed
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 20, 2011, 10:55:45 PM
Ok, engine is out and torn down...cam was about 90 degrees out...cleaning up rust under the bearings on the rods and block...should be back together tomorrow, boat running by Thursday.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 21, 2011, 06:11:47 AM
Pat I take it there was no damage then.  I am really curious as to how I put that in that way. Thought I was pretty careful. Let me know how the carb looks.
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 21, 2011, 10:18:11 PM
Got in a bit deeper.  The crank has a few gouges in it...a bad one on #1/2 rod journal, but it's between the bearings so not a big deal except it makes a stress riser...which i'm not sure I should be concerned with since it's only handling one cylinder worth of power being where it is.  #8 rod journal on the crank has a nice groove from a piece of crap that found it's way into the bearing.  Mains show signs that the line bore has a sag in it in the middle, but I've yet to devise a way to measure it.  Crank needs a polish, a new set of bearings, and the big ends of the rods are a little beat up....hammer marks or something, so those need cleaned up.  Clearances look alright with existing bearings, but all bearings have the some or more of the coating worn off...except the block side of the #3 main.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: enginedoctor on September 22, 2011, 09:09:46 PM
Frank if you and Bebo need any assistance , pleae call me! Here for ya :) shop # 1-714 879-1079 / cell 1-562 661-0905.
 Or if you have questions!
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on September 22, 2011, 09:16:59 PM
I'm not sure which I should get rid of, the boat or Bebo.  >:D  They are both eating me out of house & home.
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 22, 2011, 09:21:59 PM
It'll be right when it's done the way I want to do it, and I'll stand behind it.  Better to spend a little now than a lot later.  Took the crank in today to get some water damage/dings cleaned up, and brought home my straight edge to attempt to quantify what i see in the main bearings.  There is a definate misalignment issue...3 isn't in line with the rest of em and 4 seems a bit off too...can't come up with a number, but I can feel it.  Experience has taught me to go with my gut when I think something isn't right....and while it might work....this kind of bearing wear before the engine has even been fired points to badness once it does fire.  I'm taking the block in tomorrow and will supervise a line hone operation
to make sure the mains end up straight to the point where I can't detect a misalignment, then I'll be ready to stand behind the assembly of the engine.  I was tempted to slap it together...but everytime I've questioned myself in the past, I've regretted it.  I wouldn't do it on my motor and i won't do it on yours.

Here's a dye transfer picture that proves #3 main is a problem....
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 22, 2011, 11:24:19 PM
The straight edge I used to mark the dye was blued against a AA grade granite surface plate this morning...so for all practical purposes, it's as straight as straight gets.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: IRRebel on September 23, 2011, 12:27:20 AM
Pat, and this is more a question than a statement, bro, and I am not really second guessing you, but this is a seasoned block and crank and I value your input and thought into everything. But think seriously through on this thought. 

I don't know much about BBC engines, I'll conceed that all day long, but I'm going to assume the same applies from Mopar and Ford blocks as well in that they are all odd fire from the corners and sequential fire in the center. BBC firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 if I'm not mistaken. Same as Ford, a little different from Mopar, BUT, sequential firing on center cylinders is the same but where ALL the also-mentioned engines have MUCH larger main journals than a BBC has. 

Anyway, my point is, is it NOT conceivable that this "bow" in the center main journals is normal and compensated for, since that is where the vast majority of crankshaft deflection is going to occur, given the constant pounding the center (really, the #3 gets the pounding and #4 worse than #2 because of harmonics) journals receive on a routine basis? A seasoned block is not a factory block, we can at least agree on that, but given the bulk of the devastational forces of a BBC on it's crankshaft and reciprocating assemblies lie in the center 4 cylinders, which we can also agree on, would it not make sense IF you can determine (and you will if you can measure it) the crank is also somewhat twisted from it's stock state to account for this naturally?

In a nutshell, unless your dealing with a NEW block and NEW crank, a little extra clearance in #2 main, more in #3, and at least the same in #4 if not more, makes perfect sense to me.

Ray 
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 23, 2011, 09:29:57 AM
The way I see it, if every critical surface was re-machined...it doesn't matter how seasoned the block is.  Seasoned blocks are better, because they're generally about done moving around, so any machine work should stay where you put it.  The block can be beat to hell, but that's why we go through and reset all the critical dimensions...and they should be in the right place after the machining operations.

This block has had the caps cut and has been align honed...in which case, the mains should be straight.  Going through the trouble to work on the mains and have them misaligned in the end seems counterproductive.  We're not after shiney here...we're after straight.  I will throw a block away before I align hone it for this very reason...align honing is an art, and few people can do it right. 

Here's a shitty picture of the bearings. 

(https://forum.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv201%2FmachschnelGTI%2Fae04a2bf.jpg&hash=e41f6e53a2ef850a25d59ca39000df6243fad50c)

There's pretty even wear on all but #3.... a little more than I'd expect to see under these circumstances, but nothing to cause concern.  I'm going to reuse them all, even the #3 bearing.  The oil clearances are perfect.  Keep in mind, this engine has never been started, and the crank probably hasn't turned 50 times in these bearings.  It also had no compression (cam timing) so I'd say that the crank has never had any load on it since it was ground 30/30....the crank is dead straight...I checked it.

My thoughts are...if there's this kind of uneven wear in the #3 bearing when no load whatsoever has been introduced the crank...it'll probably get destroyed as soon as this thing gets put under load.  It might not, but that's a chance I'll let some other engine builder take....I figure if I make it as right as I can before assembly, it'll have the best chances.

Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on September 23, 2011, 11:05:46 AM
Pat, and this is more a question than a statement, bro, and I am not really second guessing you, but this is a seasoned block and crank and I value your input and thought into everything. But think seriously through on this thought. 

I don't know much about BBC engines, I'll conceed that all day long, but I'm going to assume the same applies from Mopar and Ford blocks as well in that they are all odd fire from the corners and sequential fire in the center. BBC firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 if I'm not mistaken. Same as Ford, a little different from Mopar, BUT, sequential firing on center cylinders is the same but where ALL the also-mentioned engines have MUCH larger main journals than a BBC has. 

Anyway, my point is, is it NOT conceivable that this "bow" in the center main journals is normal and compensated for, since that is where the vast majority of crankshaft deflection is going to occur, given the constant pounding the center (really, the #3 gets the pounding and #4 worse than #2 because of harmonics) journals receive on a routine basis? A seasoned block is not a factory block, we can at least agree on that, but given the bulk of the devastational forces of a BBC on it's crankshaft and reciprocating assemblies lie in the center 4 cylinders, which we can also agree on, would it not make sense IF you can determine (and you will if you can measure it) the crank is also somewhat twisted from it's stock state to account for this naturally? 

I agree with you that the center mains take a pounding.  This is also a block that has probably never seen more than about 30 or 40 or so hp per cylinder in it's life...with that in mind, I don't see this block being distorted to this point, but it's a valid point for engines that have seen some hp and actually rather common on diesel stuff.  I've just never seen any permanent block distortion on gasser stuff....doesn't mean it can't happen though.  I don't necessarily follow you on the "compensated for " part though.  How would that work?  I suppose you could simply make the center mains larger and add oil clearance, but then you are solving one problem by adding another.  The crank twist wouldn't matter unless it was also bent, which would have showed up on both halves of the bearing...not just the block side.  Regardless, all of it was machined, and the objective behind machining a block is to correct things that are not correct, and straigten things that are not straight.   It should now straight, and it's not.  It's far from straight.  The work was not checked before the block left the machine shop....or maybe it was and the problem was ignored....plain and simple. 

Quote

In a nutshell, unless your dealing with a NEW block and NEW crank, a little extra clearance in #2 main, more in #3, and at least the same in #4 if not more, makes perfect sense to me.

Ray

I'd rather have a seasoned block and a used crank....the block is done moving and the crank has been tested, with proper machine work, they will work better than new.  New only means that nobody has blowed it up before....plenty of new parts out there that are junk and need work right outta the box.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: SoCalPSD on December 08, 2011, 10:33:51 AM
How's this thing comin?

Fat fingered from the phone-Corey
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Tio Pancho on December 08, 2011, 11:43:37 AM
Funny you should ask. We actually got it fired up last weekend thanks to Pat. Sounded pretty good, and Bebo was delirious happy. Carb was leaking down too much fuel, so we put on a 770 dual feed that my buddy had and it worked great. Its a vac secondary w/ choke, but don't tell Pat. Need to order the correct sending units for oil press and water temp, then its out to test!

We had a little fire at my house day after thanksgiving so we have been living at a hotel since. We will post up some video this weekend for sure.
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: SoCalPSD on March 06, 2012, 10:17:11 PM
So what's goin on?

Fat fingered from the phone-  Corey
Title: Re: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: Bebo on March 07, 2012, 05:34:33 PM
wow thanks guys i really appreciate it!  :) We got the boat going took it out to elsinore. The valve for the water intake was broken and wasnt open and we didnt know it so it got super hot! the sensor plastic inside of it melted out so we ordered  new one of those and new valve to! Havnt takin it out since. We are finishing up getting the alternator wired too. Other then that its set to go again. when it ran it ran great! Thanks for the support guys 8)

Bebo
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on March 07, 2012, 08:29:23 PM
Ahhhh...yer killin me !

If you got it that hot, please make damn sure you retorque all the headbolts.....don't just put a torque wrench on 'em and make it click....back them all off 1/2 turn, then retorque, one at a time.  Felpro blues are good headgaskets, but they can't hang in a marine engine with no cooling for more than a minute or so....they get hot under load, and quick.  Start at one end of the head...put a paint pen dot on each bolt, them put a second dot as you loosen and re-torque to make sure you didn't miss any.  Order isn't really important, just do all of them.
Title: Bebo's 1983 Crusader Bubbledeck
Post by: lbhsbz on March 07, 2012, 08:47:24 PM
Nevermind...you ran it until it quit, it's most likely cooked.  I'll be surprised if it still spins.  Warranty is now void...LOL
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